- I wanna be a jockey when I grow up.
Yeah, I wanna be a jockey when I grow up.
- Last night, we followed the fortunes
of some of the Seven Up children.
- I must say, I mean, it's not easy being married.
- When I get married, I'd like to have two children.
I don't want to just suddenly find
when the children have gone, I've got nothing to my life.
- Tell me, do you have any girlfriends?
- Well, not many.
- What do you think about girls.
- Well, not much.
I don't really want to lose my children, any of them.
- If I could change the world, I'd change it into a diamond.
- Since I wasn't gonna be a farmer,
I couldn't live here anymore.
Choosing to leave here
is like having your right arm ripped off.
- Tonight, we'll see what's happened to the rest.
- My heart's desire is to see my daddy.
- I'm going to work in Woolworths.
- What does university mean?
- When I grow up, I want to be an astronaut.
- This is no ordinary outing at the zoo,
it's a very special occasion.
We've brought these children together
for the very first time.
They're like any other children, expect that they come
from startlingly different backgrounds.
- Stop it at once.
- We've brought these children together
because we wanted a glimpse of England in the year 2000.
The shop steward and the executive
of the year 2000 are now seven years old.
- In 1964, World in Action made Seven Up.
We have been back to film these children every seven years.
They are now 42.
- Yes, speak up.
- We'll march it both ways!
- When he was seven,
Bruce was at a pre-preparatory boarding school.
At 14, St. Paul's in London.
- They don't sort of enforce being upper class
and things like that at St. Paul's, you know?
They suggest that you don't have long hair,
and they do get it cut,
and they teach you to be reasonably well-mannered
but not to sniff on the poorer people.
- There is a property.
- At 21, he was in his last year
at Oxford reading maths.
- And by Eisenstein.
You can show that this is irreducible,
then you do a transformation on this polynomial,
x equal to t plus two.
- Good, that's a nice way of doing it,
particularly using Eisenstein down here.
His test is very powerful.
- Yes.
Well, there is one job, I'd like to make maps really.
I mean, it's a nice sort outdoor life
and you go to, I mean, you travel around,
but there are very few jobs like that going.
You observe that seven, which is a prime,
divides the co-efficient of t squared.
I won't carry on with mathematics.
I don't think I'll be a teacher
And seven square doesn't.
So, you're in the lead, you see
because TSE caps got put to two pounds
and could be caps, no problem at all, okay?
Now, can you explain that just to Abdul
'cause I want him to understand what it is.
- Yes, sir.
- At 28, he was teaching,
immigrant children East London.
- Abdul, times.
I was working in an insurance company at the time,
and I decided to go into teaching
without any experience at all,
and I didn't think they would allow somebody
to walk in off the street into a classroom.
Well, I'll go into Africa and try and teach people
who are not civilised to be more or less good.
- So, is this your missionary dream come true?
- Well, not exactly.
I've had the opportunity to come here for a term,
and it just so happens the school I'm in
has great links with this part of the world.
- At 35, Bruce was teaching in Sylhet
in Northern Bangladesh.
- And then I've also got the chance to learn a bit of Bangla
which is very difficult and I'm not doing very well at.
- Bangladesh, Bangladesh, Bangladesh.
- Bangladesh.
- The straight line, yes,
keep going, keep going, keep going.
Right, yeah, till you hit, no, no,
that's it, stop there, yeah.
- At 42, Bruce is again teaching
in the East End of London.
- And then having positive points, what do you do now?
- Turn 'em up.
- Turn 'em up, okay.
This is Bishop Chancellor Roman Catholic Girls' School
in the East End of London.
It's about 1,000 girls 11 to 18.
I'll be over in a minute.
And I've been here about five years.
I'll just leave that for a couple of minutes.
Well done, Malik, if you want to sit down anyway, thanks.
It was a chance to go for promotion
to be Head of the Maths faculty
and to teach A level as well.
Okay, all right.
I didn't agree with the conservatives
about what they were doing with the black people,
you know, the racial policy.
I'm an optimist here.
I think we can show the way, if you like, for developing
a sort of more harmonious multicultural society.
Next thing we've got to do is copy that table down.
Well, petrol.
I'm quite pleased in a way that I know,
say an Algerian fellow near where I live,
he will say that in other countries in Europe,
they're spat at and harassed and beaten up by the police.
Here he says, "I walk down the street and nobody minds."
Well my, girlfriend is in Africa and I won't,
I don't think I'll have another chance to seeing her again.
- Have you got any girlfriends?
- No, no, not yet.
I'm sure it will come, but not yet.
I mean, I do think a lot of people think too much about it.
I think I would very much like to
become involved in a family like my own family for a start.
That's a need that I feel I ought to fulfil
and would like to fulfil and would do it well.
Yes, I haven't got married or whatever,
and I suppose that would've been something
which I hoped would happen.
You know, I suppose lots of reasons really,
I don't suppose I've met the right person.
- Well, you're getting on a bit.
Are you getting worried?
- Well, not particularly, I mean, I'm always optimistic.
I mean, who knows who I might meet tomorrow,
but I think that's the trouble with reserve.
You're not rejected,
but you never know what might have been.
But I'm getting better.
What does that look like?
- It was when I think we were doing
the school production of Annie,
and Bruce was playing President Roosevelt,
and I had to put on his stage makeup.
Not many men will let you put on their makeup.
- It gives me great pleasure to be here
on this joyful and happy occasion
to celebrate the marriage of Bruce and Penelope.
♪ When Christ shall come ♪
- Bruce and Penny married last summer.
She teaches at Bruce's school.
♪ And take me home ♪
- I, Bruce Swain.
- Take you, Penelope Sarah Jane.
- To be my wife.
- So, how did he propose to you?
- We were on the sofa and in the middle of a conversation
about something completely different.
He just asked if I'd like to marry him,
and if I hadn't been listening carefully,
I would have missed it completely.
- To love and to cherish.
- Till death us do part.
It was quite unusual really.
We did a lot of it ourselves and we had the reception here.
We didn't have a lot of things
that you normally have at weddings like the cars
and photographers and all that sort of thing.
Everybody say, "Cover work!"
We just planned what we wanted,
and it all worked out very well in the end.
It was a very enjoyable day.
In practical ways, I'm better fed, better looked after,
thanks to Bruce, generally better organised
than I was before.
He's very good at sort of financial organisation
and running bank accounts and being sensible,
that kind of thing, than I am.
- First when we got married, one of the odd things was this,
her mother said, "Oh good,
"there's someone to look after Penny and cook her meals,"
rather than the other way round which sometimes happens.
- What was the biggest shock about being married?
- Well, I think three bags of clothes getting chucked out.
Two of which didn't even make it to Oxfam.
Is that right dear?
- Yes.
- But I suppose some of them were crusty old flares,
I don't know, perhaps they deserved to get chucked out.
- Does he think that the discovery of gold
was a good thing for the Transvaal?
- She's very determined and doesn't let things go,
especially with school.
She wants everything to be well done.
I mean, she prepares lessons way into the future.
- A lot of the monopolies
were granted to Dutch. - She's very sensitive,
responsive, and helps me act in a better way.
I might become petulant or something,
and it's somehow not appropriate in that situation.
My heart's desire is to see my daddy
who is 6,000 miles away.
- For march that good ways!
- I can remember being happy there.
I can remember also being miserable
because I can remember crying.
- Squad, steady!
- You know, I always seemed to be beaten,
and I never used to understand why.
- Squad, ho!
- People possibly say
I'm a little innocent at times or naive.
I used to get worried about this
and think perhaps I ought not to be taken in or deceived.
I'm not talking about love now,
I'm just talking about generally speaking.
I think I do have a sort of greater level of confidence,
especially in expressing myself, in holding opinions.
I think if you're having a partnership with somebody,
that definitely makes you more mature in a way
because you're not thinking about yourself all the time,
you're thinking about somebody else.
- Extend the line here, and then after nought hours,
you can see that it would 60 litres.
- What ambitions do you have now?
- I may become a senior teacher at some point here,
but I don't really have aspirations
to become a deputy head and a head teacher.
- Why?
- You do tend to move out of the classroom at that stage,
and also, you have to go on courses in MA
and educational studies and so on,
and our lives are busy enough really.
No, I'm in sort of a middle-aged mode at the moment
where middle-aged content is the best description.
- Go on, Carter.
Do it!
- Do it good, Carter, I am sure.
- Who's going to?
- How are you doing, dear?
- Fine, thank you, dear.
- If you saw me running around the cricket field now
after a ball, it's just comical.
It's just a lumbering old man, you know?
No flowing swoop and hurling in at the ball.
It's all gone, that lightness, that youth.
It's just gone.
- Not so fast.
- I think so, yeah.
I don't know whether they're gonna move any of them.
- We may have children, I don't know.
If in seven years' time or so,
we're living in a slightly bigger house
with a young family, that would be nice.
I mean, I don't want to pin all my hopes on it
and nothing happens.
We are quite old.
I can see bringing up, say, teenage children in your 40s
might be a bit strange.
- Looking back on your life, halfway through say,
I mean, what regrets do you have?
- Now, I'm married to a lovely person.
That kind of takes out some regrets that may have been
or I've missed my chance there or something,
and you never know what the future will hold for you,
and I think I'm lucky to have found Penny.
- He's the nicest person I've ever met.
He's just somebody you could rely on the whole time.
- Oh, I might quote that some time.
- Yeah.
No, he's not the kind of man
you would ever actually have any doubts about.
- I don't like the big boys hitting us
and the prefects sending us out for nothing.
- When he was seven,
Paul was in care at a children's home in London.
Were you happy at the children's home in England?
- We didn't mind that really
'cause we didn't know what was going on
'cause we were a bit young.
Well, as far as I know, my mother and father got,
well they separated originally, I think.
They eventually got divorced.
I went to the boarding school for one year
and then we emigrated to Australia.
My father got remarried.
- Paul settled with his father and stepmother
in a suburb of Melbourne.
What mark has it left on you,
the fact that you were brought up within a bad marriage?
- The only thing I can say
that I think might have come from that
is just my lack of confidence
and being able to show my feelings really, I suppose.
- Would you like to get married Paul?
- No.
- Tell me why not.
- I don't want like 'em, say you had a wife,
they say you had to eat what they cooked you,
and say I don't like greens, well I don't,
and say she said, "You have to eat what you give."
So, I don't like greens,
say she gives me greens and that's it.
I know I prefer to be alone really.
I can't say I don't want to get married 'cause I think I do.
But I want to be happily married, you know,
and therefore, I want to make sure, I think.
- What was it that you feel in love with,
what is it about him?
- His helplessness, I suppose.
It was the motherly instinct in me
to pick him up and cuddle him.
He's also very good looking,
I think, but he doesn't agree with me.
In the summer, he's got this cute little bum in shorts.
I mean, I can tell quite a few stories here,
but the one that really irritates me the most
is when we have an argument, he says, "That's it, leave me."
And I say, "Fine, all right, I will one day."
- So, how's married life been
since I last saw you?
- Shocking, shocking.
- We had our 20th wedding anniversary this last,
just before Christmas.
- Which is a life sentence.
- Yeah, everyone reckons
that we should be out of jail by now.
- By the time they were 28,
Paul and Sue had two children, Katy and Robert.
- Picked up a centre field,
right where it's driven.
- When we was 35, he brought his family to London
for a holiday to show them where he had started out.
- When we had Katy, when she was born, Paul said to me,
"Oh, I'm glad I've got a daughter."
He said, "When I'm an old man,
"at least she'll be able to come up
"and she'll be able to give me a kiss and a cuddle".
- And she was also the shy one of the two,
which had probably followed after me a bit.
- Well, Katie loves to shop.
We are starting to learn more of what we share alike
'cause she's very much like Paul,
and she doesn't quite know
what she really wants to do just yet.
I really love painting and art,
and I love music and she really has taken to that,
and she seems to have the creative flair.
- What does university mean?
I'm pretty happy with Katy.
I'm not having a go at Robert, but I've got fears for Robert
'cause he's struggling a little bit.
He's had three teachers already
that say they don't know how to motivate him.
- Robert had started school,
and he was having a few problems.
He's a square peg in a round hole
in the normal mainstream schools,
so we've actually moved him now to another high school
that's a community school which is much more relaxed,
and as a family unit, we're a lot more calmer.
- I was gonna be a policeman,
but I thought how hard it would be to join in.
I just haven't made up my mind yet.
I was gonna be a phys ed teacher,
but one of the teachers told me
you had to get up into university.
- At 21, Paul was working as a junior partner
for a firm of bricklayers.
By 28, he'd gone out on his own as a sub-contractor,
but it didn't work out.
- Well, I've gone from being stable in one,
basically one job, which was the bricklaying
to probably had about 10 or 15 jobs.
I've never really counted them.
Although, I haven't been sacked from jobs,
I've just been, I haven't been able to settle.
- Paul now works for a plastics company
installing industrial signs.
- I think I've got to a stage now
I just want to stay in work.
Two or three years ago, I tried to increase my skills
and I went back to school and took a carpentry certificate
because I wanted to go out and work as a carpenter,
but I basically found there were too many good carpenters
out of work for the jobs that were available.
So, I didn't go too far with that.
I suppose, partly it's my confidence in myself.
The monitors up in the washroom sends the nurse out,
well there's no talking, and I wasn't talking today,
and Brown sent me out for nothing.
I find it hard to express emotion most of the time,
although I'm getting on top of that more now, you know?
I mean, just the simple things to say to sort of Susan,
you know, I love you, something like that.
I mean, I can tell you about it,
but I really haven't been able
to say it freely to Sue, you know?
- Is confidence still an issue with you?
Yeah, yeah, unfortunately, I've learned to live with it,
sort of accept it,
but I've never really got on top of it fully,
which is, it really annoys me,
but I don't know what to do about it though.
I'm more at peace around the horses and the animals.
I can be upset, I can be on edge, come down to the horses,
and within three or four minutes of being here,
and I've forgotten everything, so it does calm you down.
But I can be a pretty angry person,
and you know, in the wrong circumstances,
I can fire up terribly,
but fortunately, it doesn't happen too often these days.
- At the beginning of this year,
Paul and Sue moved to another Melbourne suburb.
- It's like living in a palace
compared to our other house
'cause it's nearly twice the size.
- I think there's probably a few more
professional people live around this area, I think.
- So, you moved up the market a bit?
- Yeah, yeah, we have
'cause we got to a point where we paid the other house off,
so you, I suppose, it's a form of forced savings too.
I think we will have to tighten up.
- We wouldn't manage just on Paul's wage alone.
It's a difference sometimes between eating
and not eating and just paying the bills, you know?
Most people these days rely on two wages to survive.
- I don't think it needs much.
- I've been doing the mobile hairdressing now
since Robert was a baby.
- So boring cutting curly hair.
- With this job, I mean, I go and I cut people's hair,
but it's like going visiting all day
and some of the people
don't really want me there doing their hair.
They just want to come and have a chat
and tell them what I've been up to
and for them to tell me what they've been up to.
- I've got 23 three-penny pieces,
and I don't know how many halfpenny pieces I've got now.
- I spend, yeah, I spend.
He doesn't save because I don't give him any to save,
basically 'cause, you know, like I,
you know, these days you don't get a pay packet.
Well, I mean, I get money as I go,
but Paul's wages is paid straight into the bank,
and you know, it's really no money anymore.
You don't see it, it's just straight into the bank,
and then all the money comes out,
and it's just pretend, isn't it?
- I quite often joke that I think it's absolute myth
that I actually get paid at all
because I haven't seen any money for some years now so.
- In their 20s, Paul and Sue sold up,
bought an old van, and travelled across Australia.
- I think it brought us closer together
because we got to know each other
and relied on each other so much.
- When I was younger, I definitely wanted
to move out of Melbourne.
I would have only needed that encouragement from Sue.
If Susan had been exactly the same, we wouldn't be here now.
I think as I'm getting older,
I'm more nervous about doing that.
I still know there's a huge amount of space out there,
and I don't know why, but obviously that's important to me.
It's just such a beautiful country
right down to even barren land.
- What's the most fun in life at the moment
for the two of you?
- I'd say Christmas holidays.
- Yeah, Christmas holidays.
- Down at the beach. - Yeah.
- With the kids, you know, 'cause they kids love it.
- We had a great summer this year,
and we had a whole week of great weather.
- It's what a family should be,
and that's why it stands out I suppose.
I mean, I guess I do feel middle-aged,
but I'm sort of pretty comfortable with it.
I can always remember when I was younger,
I always looked forward to getting older,
and then even hopefully into the 80s that even, you know.
It's never been something that's really worried me.
- One of our ambitions
was always just to grow old together.
- That's true, we used to say that.
- Yeah.
I keep telling my children, isn't it nice to be loved
and to know that someone loves you.
It must be really sad for people out there
that have no one that don't know they're loved,
and each day, you know, sometimes you're coming home,
and you think, "Well, they'll all be home,"
and it's nice to just come home.
- Some people from Africa come here,
but when they go, they put their clothes on.
- Jackie, Lyn, and Sue
all grew up in the East End of London
and were friends in the same junior school.
- Well, I've never been abroad.
- Neither have I.
- I have, I have.
- Oh yeah 'cause you went on that cruise.
- Yeah.
- I've had the opportunities in life that I've wanted.
- I'd say we've had more opportunities.
- Yeah, right, you've made.
I think that we all could have gone any way
that we wanted to at the time within our capabilities.
I mean, we chose our own jobs,
we were able to choose our own jobs quite freely.
Well, we only had a limited choice anyway,
I mean, truth be told.
- Yes, we did have a choice. - We didn't have the choice
of private education
- Oh, no. - Because they couldn't
have afforded it anyway.
I wish I had wanted something that bad
that I had to go for it,
and I hope, I really hope my two want something
and are hungry for it, you know, and they'll go for it.
I'd love that, you know.
- They have, I think, different things,
I mean, technology has taken off so much
in the last 10 years.
- Yes, computers. - They have access
to a lot more in some way,
into an awful lot more than we had.
I'm going to work at Woolworths.
Well, I'm school Mobile Librarian and assistant
to the young people's office, which is where we are now.
- At 21, Lyn had set out on a career
working in a mobile library in Tower Hamlets in East London.
- I've not stamped yours, "Sleeping Beauty."
Teaching children the beauty of books
and watching their faces as books unfold to them
is just fantastic.
To work with children of that age,
you've got to love them, and I love children.
- Because of cuts in the education budget,
Tower Hamlets closed the mobile library,
and Lyn went to work in Bethnal Green.
- One of the jobs that was going
was divisional children's librarian and they based me here.
They hadn't had a children's librarian here for nine years.
You can draw better than I can.
Right, the story I've got for you this morning
is called "The Magic Bicycle," and it's all about Mark.
I do regularly class visits with 19, 20 classes,
more than that, coming in to the library.
And within that, we do either a storytelling session
or library skills.
"But he couldn't ride it."
I've been a governor on schools
in Tower Hamlets for 12, 13 years,
being Chair of Governors at the moment.
- I've had the parent on the phone
two or three times this week wondering what's happening.
They wanted to come in and discuss with me
and the coordinator about how well the project was going
and to observe a lesson.
- We've got a few problems with these knots.
Can anyone think of another way?
- Can you ever see yourself not working?
- No.
I like the excitement.
I like the push of filling my life.
It's stimulating.
There are times I go home, I'm absolutely shattered.
I go home, I go to sleep.
- Well, I know he is hers and he loves her.
- I don't, I love him.
- I had an all-white wedding.
All white.
We were both in white and my bridesmaid was in white.
I've been married a year and couple of months.
You do think, "Christ, what have I done?"
- See, I've still got... - And I'm being
honest about it.
And Russ thinks the same.
You think at times, you think, "Christ what have I done?"
- Lyn married Russ at 19.
They have two daughters Sarah and Emma.
- We married young but because we wanted to go out
and have fun together and grow together.
- How do you manage to keep a career going
and bring up a family?
Hold a marriage together?
- We've always had a very good partnership.
I couldn't do it without him.
Russ cooks during the week, I cook at weekends.
It's not as if I'm going belting home
because I've got to go and cook a meal for everybody.
I know that when I get home, it's gonna be done.
We're there together and we love each other,
and we've never stopped.
If I could, I would have two girls and two boys.
- Yeah, right.
- Used by a doctor in medicines
and controlled doses is fine.
50% of teenagers between 14 and 18 have tried drugs.
- I think Emma is more like me.
Sarah's much more placid.
She's like Russ. - The wrong drug is deadly.
- With the girls in their teens now,
I've looked back and thought Emma is very much like I was.
- Why am I using a wooden spoon, please?
- The noise.
- The noise, yes, we've got 16 people, 16 saucepans.
- I mean, Emma has just done her GCSEs.
She got 10 and gone back to sixth form college,
doing A Levels.
She doesn't know what she wants to do.
- Excuse me. - Yup.
- It is wonderful, except we got...
- She's got her own life now.
She's building that life and she's making her own decisions.
- Thing about Liverpool, we can drive so far.
- We go through stages, the terrible twos.
At the time, when you are going through them,
it seems terrible,
they're never ever going to end.
Stir it.
I know, sort of Mum and Dad would say,
"Ah, but you know, don't worry, that will go,
"you'll come through it to the next stage
"and the next stage".
And I think it's ongoing like that.
I'd love to be able to talk to my mum and dad
and say, "Really, did I really put you through that?"
I remember some of it, and god, yes, I must have,
but until you go through it with your own,
you never, ever, realise
what hell you put your parents through.
- By the time she was 35, Lyn's mother had died.
- She was a great friend to me as well as a mum,
probably the best friend I'll ever have.
It's only two years.
To some, it probably seems,
oh it's a long time, but it's not very long.
The biggest area of my life that's changed
since we last talked is I lost my dad,
and literally just after 34 Up went out, he died.
I mean, they looked after the girls while I worked.
After mum died, the first thing dad said was,
"That's my job now".
And of course, suddenly we had neither of them.
All right, watch it, you.
- At 35, Lyn was having
a health problem of her own.
- They stuck all these tubes up inside me
and discovered that I'd got these veins up here
that shouldn't be there.
- In your brain?
- Mm-hmm.
- And what can they do about it?
- Not a lot at the moment.
They're investigating other treatments,
but the surgeon said that
he doesn't want to operate at the moment because the risk,
it's too near the optic nerve.
Well, it's never gonna go away.
I've still got this vein malformation,
and it'll always be there.
Obviously, I've had it from birth.
Hello, Neil, it's Lyn.
How'd it go last night, did you manage to get into it?
There is a 1% chance that it could haemorrhage.
I've got more chance being knocked down crossing the street,
and in that perspective, I don't worry about it at all.
Oh, it's just problems now.
- And do you think about dying a lot?
- No, doesn't worry me at all.
My dad taught me that.
He wasn't scared of death at all,
and it's the people that are left behind
that take the brunt of someone dying.
That one was, yes, so they'll keep that back,
and once the person that's reserved it.
- Is there a spiritual side to your life?
- Yes.
- Can you talk about that?
- No.
- Why?
- It's private, it's personal, it's me.
It's part of what makes me up, makes me me.
- Sometimes, things are not good, are they?
And I know that you would've thought about that
because at the moment.
- Do you think morality
has changed in your lifetime?
- Yes, I think we've lost an awful lot of morality.
A lot of values in my opinion have gone.
- Like what?
- Respect.
There seems to be a great lack of respect for anything.
I think that's what makes part of it hard
bringing up children nowadays because our values are so high
and actually expecting them to maintain those values.
- Are you asking too much of them?
- You do expect a lot of them,
but I think, I think I'm flexible as well.
I'm learning when to let go.
♪ If I say that I love you ♪
- I mean, for me, I'm lucky, yeah, everything's worked out.
Unlike the girls, they've lost a relationship,
and then they've gained new ones for them.
For them, that's the way their lives have gone.
- That's right.
- Russ and I have been together a long time.
- I actually envy you that.
- Of course, we both do.
- I do envy you that
because I don't know how, whatever the reasoning behind it,
you and Russ have made that work,
and that was something that I failed at.
- And me, yeah, it was a failure, definitely.
- If we did all love Geoffrey,
and we all want to marry him.
- Yeah!
- I think I know the one that he'd like best and that's her.
- I don't think I'll get married too early.
I'd like to have a full life first
and meet people - I'd like to enjoy myself
before I...
- Yeah, before you commit yourself to a family.
- We had a teacher at school that his favourite ploy
was, "All you girls want to do is walk out,
"get married, have babies, and push a pram down the street
"with a fag hanging outside your mouth."
- Marriage means a different thing to me.
I've still got my ideals about marriage.
I don't know what it's all about.
- Sue was 24 when she married Billy.
They had two children, William and Katherine.
- I think that to get married young,
there must be things that you miss.
You must miss that crucial stage of being yourself
because the minute you get married,
you're no longer a single being,
you're a partnership and that should be the idea behind it.
- By the time she was 34,
she and Billy had divorced.
- I've never sat down and thought,
"What was it, was it this, was it that?"
I just knew it wasn't working.
I mean, there have been relationships
when I could have settled, but they didn't feel quite right,
so I've always come away and pulled away
and just waited until the right one come along.
If they ever do.
Deep down I probably wish I wasn't having to do this.
I mean, I'd like to still be married,
and I'd like to have that steady relationship.
But I'm the type of person
that likes to go out and likes to have a good time.
So, it's not that hard for me.
But I think as you get into your 40s,
you start thinking, "Well, maybe I should slow down a bit."
I've been a single parent for a long while,
and I've brought them up on my own really
because Katherine was only two when Bill left.
It's been extremely hard
and sometimes it's been very lonely.
- And do you think William
misses not having a dad?
- He probably does.
He doesn't talk an awful lot about it.
- It looks good. - So, charming.
- He seems so together.
He's quite deep, so he doesn't say an awful lot.
He's got my dad, my dad's there.
My children probably owe a lot to my mum and dad.
I mean, my mum and dad have been absolutely brilliant.
With William, I want him to have a really satisfying career.
Get your tie done.
Which is something that I've really had.
For him, I would love that.
Well for both of them, but particularly for him
'cause he can go far if he puts his mind to it.
You know, he may go to university,
we have talked about it if he does well.
He's capable of it.
With Katherine, she talks about doing things
like hairdressing and girlie things, you know,
'cause she doesn't really know what she wants to do yet.
She just wants to enjoy herself at the moment.
I can remember being the same when I was her age.
But she loves babies and she keeps saying,
"Mum I want a," and I say,
"Don't even think about it," you know.
I hope not.
It was very hard first of all when I gave up work,
from having a fairly high salary to nothing was hard,
but you get used to it.
Whatever your circumstances are, you live in them,
you get used to them and you cope, everybody does.
- When her children were old enough
to go to school, Sue started work again.
She has an office job in the Law Faculty
of the University of London.
- Can I please have an examination form?
- Yeah, sure.
I've always worked, but anyone who's got teenagers
knows how expensive it is,
and there are times when I can't quite manage
what I'd like to do with them,
especially school trips and things like that.
All right, thanks.
Bye.
I've got certain little savings,
things that I do for them and policies
and things that will come out when they're 21
and hopefully things that when they get married
or if they want a car.
I mean, there are times that are hard
when you are on your own.
♪ Your guitar ♪
♪ It sounds so sweetly ♪
We've all got little secret dreams.
I'd love to sing, along with millions of others.
♪ It's just the radio ♪
But I didn't want to give up work,
and I didn't want to risk all that to follow the dream.
♪ Said you'd be coming back this way again, baby ♪
There are still lots of places that I want to go to.
Lots of wild things that I want to do,
jumping out of a plane.
Silly things that you can do,
but you just never seem to get round to.
Just never seem to get round to it,
but I think you should make sure you do.
I'm just basically a happy person.
I don't get upset in front of the kids,
and that's important that I don't ever want to upset them
because there have been times when I have been hurt
over the last few years, but I've done my best
to keep that from them.
They don't need that.
♪ But you're not really here ♪
I'm with someone now which is nice,
it feels right, but it's early days yet.
Regrets, everyone wants to be a perfect parent, but I'm not.
I do the best I can,
and I can't say it's the worst part of me
that I go out such a lot
because I don't think that it hurts them.
It's a completely different lifestyle I've got
to what my mum and dad had,
but they are just so there for me,
and they're more responsible
for the way my kids are than I am.
♪ I really do ♪
- Sue.
- I would like to get married when I grow up,
but I don't know what sort of boy, but I think one
that's not got a lot of money
but has got some money, not a lot.
- Have you got any boyfriends?
- That's personal, innit?
- Don't like the way he came out with that.
- We shan't tell him, shall we?
- That was horrific really, the cake,
what happened to the wedding cake.
I mean, it was sitting right in between Mick and myself,
and suddenly the columns just completely gave way
and it fell into one.
I would say on average, 19 is probably too young.
- By the time she was 34,
Jackie and Mick had divorced.
- We decided ourselves, I mean, just between the two of us,
we knew it wasn't going any further.
We both knew, I think, at the end of the day,
we would be happier leading our own lives.
My mum 'cause she got five girls,
she has seven years back luck,
that's why she's got five girls.
I'd like to be able to have a happy family,
I mean, I know it's not possible to be happy all the time,
but as much of the time that was possible.
Go through there, that's the nursery.
- Got any plans?
- Do me a favour.
- She and Mick decided early on
that they didn't want children.
- Well, do you sometimes feel like wringing his neck?
- Basically, I would say because I'm far too selfish.
I enjoy doing what I want when I want and how I want
and certainly at the moment,
I can't see any way around that.
That's not to say that's a forever decision.
Oh!
And this one on, here we go!
Oh, yeah!
I had a brief, but very sweet relationship,
the result of which was Charlie.
Cor blimey, Charlie, you're supposed
to be cleaning your teeth, not eating the brush.
It's the best thing that could've happened to me,
and I would never have believed
I could've enjoyed a child as much as I enjoy him.
Anybody that wanted to know just got told I was pregnant.
I wasn't with the father, end of story.
Oi, give us a cuddle.
I don't really want Charlie to be an only.
I'd love him to have brothers and sisters,
but not necessarily loads of 'em,
just one would do actually.
Bed, Charlie Brown.
Right, Charlie, there's yours.
Please, eat it all up.
- Oh!
- And James.
- Thanks, Mum.
- Good boy.
And last but not least.
Gonna eat that one for me?
- After her relationship
with Charlie's father ended,
she met Ian and had two more sons.
Which one is the most like you, do you think?
- At the moment, personality wise, probably James.
He's the cheeky one, he's the one full of confidence.
Charlie's the quieter one, Charlie's the grown up.
Lee's an absolute bullet.
If he wants to do something, he just does it,
I mean, no fear of anything, but they are all good boys.
You can take them almost anywhere.
- Almost? - Almost anywhere, yeah.
- And what is the most fun?
- The little things that they come out with.
The shear unexpected pleasure of them.
I don't know, it's really hard to describe,
but they come up with so many different comments.
- Finished.
- This is actually a place called Newmains,
which is about a 40-minute drive from Glasgow,
about 15-minute drive from Motherwell.
- So, how did you land up here?
- Well, because the boys dad's Scottish,
and this is his hometown,
and we decided that, I mean, Charlie was what, five,
about to start school, and it was now or never.
If we hadn't moved then,
I don't think we would ever have done it,
but obviously, I am glad that we did.
There's a lot more here for the boys.
They've got a lot more freedom here.
The way the people treat each other and talk to each other,
it's more like a village and that's a good advert, I think.
A very good advert,
I like it far more than I ever did London.
- Not long after settling in Scotland,
Ian and Jackie split up.
- Thank you.
- We're now living on our own,
although he is a regular visitor
and sees the children quite often.
- Lee!
- When any couple parts,
and I don't care how good or how bad the terms are.
- Lee!
- There's always a tendency for recrimination,
you know, just the usual petty, this was your fault,
this was, you know, and blaming each other and that,
and it took us a long while to realise
just how much the boys were listening to us.
They could so easily have grown up thinking
that it was their fault and it wasn't,
not in any way, shape, or form.
They just happened to be the unlucky victims of it.
- What would you do if you had lots of money,
about maybe two pounds?
- I would buy meself a new nice house, wouldn't I?
One that's all nice and comfy.
When Ian and I split up,
I actually went into temporary accommodation,
and I got housed a couple of miles from here,
but that was furnished
because I didn't have anything to take with me.
I was there seven weeks and they offered me this one,
and with the help of family and friends
and word goes out, "Jackie is needing some stuff,"
and it all just suddenly arrived.
The poor, if you don't help them,
they'll sort of die soon, wouldn't they?
I think it might be a bit low on the ground, the snow.
I don't think there's enough there, do you?
I don't cope financially.
Without my mother-in-law stepping in to fill the gap,
I wouldn't be coping.
It's really hard to explain to anyone
who's not had to do it, but you may,
you get to a point where either that bill doesn't get paid
or your children don't eat.
So obviously. your children eat,
which means that either my mother-in-law pays the bill,
or she makes sure that my food's in for the following week
so I can pay the bills, but it's not easy to live like it.
Say, "Come on, swans!"
She's brilliant.
If I could have chosen a mother-in-law,
she was the one I would have chosen.
She's great for me.
She's absolutely brilliant with the children,
and she's just always there when I need her to be.
Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, you leave him alone.
At the moment, I mean,
a career's probably about the furthest thing from my mind.
I don't really know what I'm aiming for
except to get the house together.
My father had a reasonably good education.
He never went to the local comprehensive,
but at the same time, I don't think he was too worried
which way I decided to go.
Oh, I've no doubts I could have done more.
Certainly when I was younger,
it was probably laziness that stopped me.
Oh!
When we did the last programme,
I think there was actually a comment
my father made at the time
was maybe he should have pushed me a little bit harder.
And I think maybe in retrospect, he should have done,
and that's probably the one thing
that I will do with mine that he didn't do with me.
I think I should push 'em just that little bit harder.
James, you watch, you're catching up to him.
Go on, Lee.
I was working up here until very recently,
but they've discovered that I've got rheumatoid arthritis,
so at the moment, that's put work on hold.
It's painful, very painful,
particularly my hands, my feet, and my shoulders.
It can be almost crippling at times.
I get tired, and that obviously makes life awkward
at home with the children.
- I wanna see.
- No, you're not.
Well, there is certainly no cure.
At the moment, they're trying to stem it
so that it gets no worse.
Whether we're having much success at that,
it's still quite early days,
so I really don't know at the moment.
I certainly don't feel that great at the moment.
Are we ready?
One, two, three, go!
Swimming is one of the best things for arthritis.
It can help as long as you don't overdo it,
but having said that, I'll pay for it tomorrow.
I'll be stiff tomorrow.
I shouldn't really lift Lee.
If Lee wants a cuddle, he should sit on my lap,
and I should cuddle him on my lap,
but how do you tell a four-year-old, no you can't lift them.
I mean, I can't stop being his mum
just because I'm not well.
- Do you remember those scenes at 21
when you were showing them round the house
at East Chiltern. - East Chiltern, yeah.
- Boy, we've gone a long way, haven't we?
- Just a bit.
Oh god, in fact, don't flash back to that
at this point please.
Just the double chins and the age,
and I mean, the funny part about is
is that you don't think about your age
until you think about something like that.
I mean, when you think about how many years ago that was,
and it was all so new and fresh.
I mean, I've done exactly the same now.
I've just started all over again,
but with three children in tow this time.
But that's life.
- So much hope then, wasn't there?
- There still is.
Oh, there still is.
Don't make that mistake, Mike.
I am in no way,
I am down and I am depressed about my illness,
but I'm certainly not down and depressed about my life.
Nothing's gonna do that, I've got three wonderful boys.
I've got a loving family around me.
I mean, I'm lucky.
There are a lot of people
that are a damn sight worse off than I am, a lot of people.
- Well, we pretend we've got swords,
and we make the noises of the swords fighting,
and when somebody stabs us, we go, "Argh."
- Neil grew up in a Liverpool suburb.
- In the winter, if you live in the country,
well it was just all wet and there wouldn't be anything
for miles around and you'd get soaked if you tried to go out
and there's no shelter anywhere except in your own house.
But in the town, you can go out on wet wintry days
'cause you can always find somewhere to shelter
'cause there's lots of places.
- At 14, he was at a local comprehensive school.
- I think it's a very good idea to have competition,
otherwise you might start to relax really,
and not try hard enough.
Being in Set One, it's very, very hard
to keep up with the leaders.
I never have the time to relax at all.
- Neil had dreams of going to Oxford,
but he didn't get in.
Instead, he went to Aberdeen University
but dropped out after a term.
At 21, he was living on a building site
and living in a squat.
- I came to London
and I contacted an agency for squatters,
and they were able to give me the address
of somebody who was able to help people
who were looking for accommodation in the London area.
- You kicked against the stability.
- I don't think I ever had any stability to be quite honest.
I can't think of any time in my life when I ever did.
I don't think I've been kicking against anything.
I think I've been kicking in mid-air the whole of my life.
- At 28, he was homeless
wandering around the west coast of Scotland.
- If the state didn't give us any money,
it would probably just mean crime,
and I'm glad I don't have to steal to keep myself alive.
If the money runs out, well then for a few days,
there's nowhere to go to and that's all you can do.
I simply have to find the warmest shed I can find.
- How do people regard you here?
- Well, I'm still known as an eccentric,
as I have been since about the age of 16 or so.
I'm not claiming that I feel
as though I'm in some sort of Nirvana,
but I'm claiming that if I was living
in a bedsit in suburbia, I'd be so miserable,
I'd feel like cutting my throat.
- At 35, we found him living on a council estate
in the most northerly part of Britain, the Shetland Islands.
- The nice thing about here is that you can cut yourself off
when you want because there are people living around,
but they're pretty quiet people.
It's an environment which sustains me,
it's one in which I can survive.
I still feel my real place is in the world
where people are doing what the majority of people do.
And the reason I don't feel safe is
because I think I'm getting more and more
used to this lifestyle,
which eventually, I shall have to give up.
- And what would you like to be doing,
say, in seven years?
- I can think of all kinds of things
that I'd like to be doing.
The real question is what am I likely to be doing.
- What are you likely to be doing?
- And that's a horrible question.
I tend to think most likely the answer
is I'll be wandering homeless around the streets of London,
but with a bit of luck, that won't happen.
Some of the considerable disadvantages
that residents of Trowbridge state area have
in comparison with those in other parts of Hackney,
first of all, they are geographically isolated.
They're separated from most of Hackney by...
- At 42, he's a Liberal Democrat
member of Hackney Council.
He was elected two years ago.
- While I was in Shetland, I felt very strongly
that I should become involved in politics
simply because I felt I was not achieving anything
in the ways I really wanted to,
and I could see decisions being made politically
by people I felt were not competent to make them
and who I felt were not representing
the majority of the public and I felt angry.
And I felt in my own small way, I gotta get in there.
And I think more people should.
I think that it's only apathy
which leads to bad government at any level.
- It's like a million miles away
from the Shetlands here.
How have you coped with that?
- That is one aspect of it.
Certainly adjusting to London after all that period away,
even though I'd been back occasionally for visits,
was extremely difficult.
It became progressively easier.
The first six hours were an absolute nightmare,
and then the first week was pretty bad,
and I suppose it took me a year or so to adjust.
I suppose, I would.
Yes, well, I would like to be somebody
in a position of importance.
I've always thought this,
but I don't think I'm the right sort of person
to carry the responsibility for whatever it is.
I've always though well I'd love to be,
possibly love to be in politics or something like this.
The question of longterm sickly delegation,
as you'll be aware, Chair, the Liberal Democrats oppose.
- Do you have any nerves when you stand up
and give speeches or make arguments or defend positions?
- Yes, of course, and if I didn't, it would be wrong,
and the councillor who has no nerves is not doing his job.
It becomes slightly easier after the first time,
and I'm glad you didn't record my first speech
because most of the chamber walked out,
and I determined like Disraeli to say something,
like well, "You're not listening now,
"but one day, you will hear me."
But unfortunately, most of the chamber
had already walked out, so it was hardly worth saying that,
and also, I didn't believe
that it would necessarily be the case.
Well, I'm going to take people to the country
and sometimes take them to the seaside,
and I'll have a big loudspeaker in the motor coach
and tell them whereabouts we are and what we're going to do
and what the name of the road is and all about that.
- Do the days seem long for you?
- They can do.
- Do you have any friends anywhere?
- I've some good friends still in England.
Father God, we thank you for the love
that you show to us all in creation.
We pray that that love may grow
and take root wherever Bruce and Penny
find themselves from now on.
We pray that you will give them both
understanding and patience.
- I think it was just after the 28 programme.
There was organised a dinner
just to say farewell to everybody really.
I don't think the idea
was that we would get to know each other and become friends
and see each other in the meanwhile,
but I think Neil turned up without much notice.
I can't really remember.
- I came down from Scotland.
- Okay, right.
And I don't think anywhere had been arranged
for him to stay.
I think there was for all those,
you know, I'm not exactly sure what happened,
and I said, "Well, you can always kip on my spare bed."
- I think that the time
between my moving to London from Shetland
and actually finding my own accommodation in London
must have been round about two months,
and all that time I stayed with Bruce.
- And was that difficult?
- Not at all.
He was the model host,
although he did always insist on measuring
the amount of bathwater there was in the bath.
I'm not quite sure why that was, I never actually found out.
- I hope you don't mind me saying this, but you know,
like he'd find the fridge a bit noisy, so he'd turn it off.
Or if I had to hoover, he'd walk round the block or.
- Well, I didn't basically stay in.
- No, no, no, no, that's true.
- No, I accept that I wasn't the model lodger in every way
and however that only emphasises
how patient you actually were.
- No.
- How has Bruce helped you?
- Well, he has just been a good loyal friend,
and I appreciate what he has tried,
done to help me to set up in London
and just been someone to talk to when the need has arisen.
When I grow up, I want to be an astronaut.
If I can't be an astronaut, I think I'll be a coach driver.
This is probably linked up
with the fact now that I want to travel.
I mean, my thoughts haven't really changed that much,
but I definitely would like to be a coach driver now.
I've trained to be a teacher
of English as a foreign language.
I've been on a number of training courses,
and I did an Open University degree.
That was perhaps the longest of all.
It was an Open University BA.
I took a number of subjects.
This is all background I suppose
and really perhaps you'd like to know
whether I've done any work and the answer is no.
- Another one? - There you are.
There will be plenty in the next few weeks.
- I know all about.
- All Neil's political work is voluntary,
like the canvassing he did for the Liberal Democrats
at last year's Winchester By-Election.
- Thanks.
- He lives entirely off State Benefit.
- I haven't had any paid work
apart from a couple of interim government schemes.
I worked in a local community theatre for about six months.
I worked as a gardener, fairly inevitably.
- Does it worry you, living off benefits,
living off the state?
- Yeah, of course.
I feel as I am a drain on people
who are working hard to provide the money.
It's not that I don't think
there shouldn't be a benefit service.
I think there should be work for all
or for as many who want to do it,
and I'm not satisfied with efforts that have been made
to provide work for those who want it.
When I get married, I don't want to have any children
because they're always doing naughty things
and making the whole house untidy.
I don't know what the best age is for falling in love
and maybe when you're in love in your teens,
you really are in love
and when you think you're in love later on, you're not.
Or maybe I'm still not old enough to really fall in love.
I always told myself that I would never have children.
- Why?
- Because, because, well because children
inherit something from their parents,
and even if my wife were the most high-spirited
and ordinary and normal of people,
the child would still stand a very fair chance
of being not totally full of happiness
because of what he or she will have inherited from me.
Well, I'm not married.
I value all experience,
and I feel this part of my life hasn't happened.
I'm not homosexual, therefore I do hanker
after a stable relationship with a woman.
I have never been able to achieve that,
and I think I'm somehow deficient in my ability
to react to certain of the needs of others
through not having had that relationship.
I feel, especially sometimes when I'm on my own,
that I'm losing touch with the way other people live.
- Do you worry about your sanity?
- Other people sometimes worry about it.
- Like who?
- As I said, I sometimes can be found behaving
in an erratic fashion.
Sometimes get very frustrated,
very angry for no apparent reason.
For a reason which won't be apparent
to other people around me.
- Do you ever think you're going mad?
- Oh, I don't think it, I know it.
We don't like to use the word mad.
I think most people are mad here really.
My health has been a lot better more recently
than at other times in my life.
Maybe being busy has been part of the cure.
And I think my Christian faith has helped me.
- I can actually say, now, many thanks for the prayers.
They were really nice, they were thoughtful.
- I also believe as my friends who have been so loyal
have got to know me more better and better,
and there is always room for getting to know people better,
that they themselves have been able to show support
and sympathy in the most appropriate ways.
- Is this a good time in your life?
- Yes, probably, I've never been busier,
and I've never been in contact with so many people.
- Now, the one thing I do have say
is please put all the leaflets
right through the letterboxes.
- I feel incredibly grateful for the opportunity
to do what I'm doing.
I'm grateful to the people that elected me.
I hope I haven't let them down.
I hope I will be re-elected,
and that depends on my performance in the last two years.
- In May, he was re-elected for another term.
- I don't think there's a councillor in the country
who wouldn't like to see themselves as an MP,
and yet they say every politician
wants to be Prime Minister.
But I'm quite happy at the moment
doing my council work trying to serve
what I perceive is a very great need in Hackney.
Well, I suppose I've done many more things
than on previous occasions,
but whether I've changed inside, I can't say.
- What's the most enjoyable thing in life
for you at the moment?
- I think it's looking to the future.
- Well, that's a change for the better, isn't it?
- Well, perhaps that's just because I'm getting old.
I think it's me believing that things
can't be so bad in the future as they have been in the past,
and I think there are certain short-term objectives
I have here in Hackney,
and if I can achieve a few of those, then I'll be pleased.
- Wee!
- What effect has it had on you
being in these films, do you think?
- It's funny because before the films start, you think,
what on earth have I done with the seven years
that I could possibly say.
What can I talk about that I've done,
and you panic, you think, "I should have done something.
"I should have done something dramatic."
You know, I was hoping I'd win the lottery last night
so that I could come on and say, but life's not like that.
- Well, I mean we were talking
about my ambitions as a scientist.
I mean, my ambition as a scientist
is to be more famous for doing science
than for being in this film,
but unfortunately, Michael, it's not gonna happen.
- I have met some of the most interesting people
who I am still in contact with,
and this includes people in different parts of the world.
And one or two particularly close friendships
have been forged through the programme.
Although I had to say,
I was very suspicious when the initial contact was made.
- I mean, I don't think I'd ever
have kept a record of my life
in the way that we have with this programme so, yes,
I mean, I enjoyed doing it, but it's not,
it's not something that sort of takes a great precedence.
- If you came and asked me
if you could do this to my children,
I certainly wouldn't be enthusiastic.
I think it's something
that I wouldn't want to wish on someone particularly.
- I think for the first 40-odd years,
it's restricted me because I was always shy to start with
and knowing that people were gonna be looking at me
and watching me, rather than do something
that's gonna look stupid, I've always pulled myself back.
- There's a lot of baggage that gets stirred up
every seven years for me that I find quite,
that I find very hard to deal with,
and I can put it away for the seven years,
and then it comes round again,
and the whole lot comes tumbling out again,
and I have to deal with it all over again.
- It hasn't changed my choices in life.
I haven't though, "Well, I have to be doing this by then,"
or, "How will this seem to others," or so on.
It's just a kind of periodic little intrusion.
- It's the only time, when you're a cabbie,
instead of you picking up a celebrity
and saying "Hello you're Paul Gasgoigne, ain't ya?"
And when they go, "I know you,"
and they turn the tables on you, you know.
- And do you like that?
- It's not a question of like it, I'm used to it.
I don't mind it. - You do like it.
- It has to be said that I bitterly regret
that the headmaster of the school
where I was when I was seven
pushed me forward for this series because every seven years,
a little pill of poison is injected into.
- Oh no.
- Well, it's the truth.
- Being honest, I think despite all the things
that I might have said over the years
about, "Oh, coming again" and that sort,
I think there's a certain amount
of excitement there too underlying,
I'm old enough to admit it now I suppose.
You know?
No, it probably is a bit of good fun, I think.
- Some of us don't see family from one year to the next,
seven years on, and I think that's how we all feel
about each other, but we're linked and that can never go.
- At the end of their very special day in London
after their trip to the zoo and the party,
we took our children to an adventure playground
where they could do just what they liked.
Those from the children's home set about building a house.
There's Nicholas.
There's Tony.
Andrew.
And Bruce.
Suzi.
Jackie and her friends.
Give me a child until he is seven,
and I will give you the man.
This has been a glimpse of Britain's future.